FILE ON MARGIN IS 79 STATUS: ALL ALLOWED NUMBER OF LINES: 629 1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask...... 2 *********************** REMOVED: 18 SEP 83 **************************** 3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System) Mike Day System operator 4 ************************************************************ 5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION PLACED ON 6 THIS SYSTEM. 7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privatly owned 8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public. 9 No restrictions are placed on the use of the system. 10 It is intended that the system be normally used for messages and 11 advertisments by the users. As the system is privatly owned, I retain the 12 right to remove any and all messages which I may find offensive 13 to me. Additionally because of the limited size of the system, it will be 14 periodically purged of older messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved) 15 The saved information will be cycled to drive 'B' while the information on 16 drive 'B' will be archived, and a fresh disk will be installed in drive 'A'. 17 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out 18 of the enter mode. The message is automaticly stored. 19 If after entering the message you find you made a mistake, 20 use the replace command to replace the line. 21 To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up. 22 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system. 23 ======================================== 24 25 Mikey: Since most of the time a /0 error happens at a time when you 26 want a very LARGE number as a result (if not, please tell me what 27 on earth (or elsewhere) you are doing!) I think the interpreter 28 should return some LARGE # as the answer (preferably some number 29 that can't be gotten any other way). I'd like to define some 30 "non-valid" bit pattern (most BASICS have at LEAST one) in a numeric 31 variable as "infinity" (or whatever). This would be similar to 32 some Basics that have a defined variable "PI". This way you could 33 get a "valid" answer AND be able to test for the /0 "error" without 34 messing with error trapping subroutines (a simple IF A = INFINITY THEN...). 35 36 DOM: Almost ANY machine with a Microsoft BASIC will have error 37 trapping routines. I KNOW that the following machines have them: 38 TRS-80 Model I (Level II & Disk BASICs only) 39 TRS-80 Model II 40 TRS-80 Model III (same restriction as Model I) 41 TRS-80 Models 4,12&16 42 TRS-80 Color Computer (EXTENDED BASIC only) 43 TRS-80 Model 100 44 Apple II 45 46 The following machines do NOT have Error trapping (ie ON ERROR GOSUB ): 47 ZX-80 & 81 48 Timex Sinclair 1000 49 PET 2001 50 51 If I didn't mention a system, then I don't know. I SUSPECT that 52 the VIC-20 & C-64 don't support error trapping. 53 ONE FOR THE TRS-80!!!!!!!!! TRON.... The Mad TRS-80 fan! 54 Now as for the "Sub-Atomic S*xuality" discussion: Please remember 55 to take into account the lastest Quark discoveries. Should Pauli 56 exclude particles merely because they are "strange"? What effect 57 does "charm" play in the love life of the proton? And what about 58 "truth" & "beauty"? 59 STAY TUNED FOR THE ANSWERS TO THESE QUESTIONS IN 60 THE NEXT EPISODE OF "QUANTUM DEGENERACY"!! (c) 1983 all rights etc. 61 62 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~ 63 64 Who is the above person?? Has Signed resumed his previous identity of 65 Unsigned or is there another unsigned in our midst? In any event, thanks 66 for the above info (regarding error trapping). 67 68 I am looking foreward to the above mentioned lecture. 69 70 I STILL WANT TO KNOW HOW TO ROLL MAKIZUSHI, any suggestions? 71 72 Dirty 73 74 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~ 75 TO DOM: GET HIM DRUNK FIRST (OOOOH SO BAD A JOKE) 76 TO MIKEY: AGREE COMPLETELY WITH /0=0. MOST APPLICATIONS ARE BUSINESS 77 ORIENTED, WHERE WHAT ONE WANTS IS A RATE OR PERCENTAGE, E.G. 78 WHOLESALE COST/#UNITS IN INVENTORY=AVERAGE COST AVERAGE COST HERE 79 SHOULD BE ZERO IN MOST APPLICATIONS IF THERE CURRENTLY ARE NONE IN INVENT- 80 ORY. HOWEVER THIS WOULD NOT BE TRUE IN SCIENTIFIC OR ENGINEERING APPLI- 81 CATIONS, AND THE RESULT GIVEN SHOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO THE GENERAL USE 82 OF A SYSTEM. 83 TO BAD: HAVE READ ISSUE REFERRED TO, QUITE INTERESTING, ARE YOU A FIG MEMBER 84 TO DOM: THATS OK DOM NO PROBLEM. SEE NEXT MESSAGE. 85 86 TO ALL: CAN REACH ME THROUGH SOURCEMAIL AT STI194, CAN GET ME ON COMPUSERVE 87 AT CHATTER OR CB OCCASIONALLY UNDER THIS MONIKER. 88 89 TO ALL: EVRYTHING ELSE ON WANG 1200 MODELS STANK, BUT ONE NICE THING THEY 90 DID HAVE WAS THE ABILITY TO (ON SOME VERSIONS) GET VERY PRECISE CONTROL 91 OVER ERRORS, FOR EXAMPLE BRANCHING TO A PARTICULAR LINE OR ROUTINE IF A 92 PARTICULAR ERROR NUMBER ON A PARTICULAR LINE OCCURRED. OTHER MACHINES HAVE 93 ALSO HAD VERY GOOD ERROR CONTROL BUT THE OPERATING SYSTEMS ON THESE MICROS 94 WON'T BE UP TO THIS TYPE OF THING TILL EVERYONE HAS HARD DISK, I SUSPECT. 95 96 I THINK 5.75 AN HOUR IS EXPENSIVE, LET ALONE $100/HOUR. IN A SOCIETY 97 WHERE ACCESS TO TRAINING AND OTHER INFORMATION IS SO VITAL, WE SHOULD 98 STRIVE TO MAKE SHURE ALL MEMBERS OF SOCIETY HAVE ACCESS TO IT. A POOR 99 KID SHOULD AT LEAST BE ABLE TO GO TO THE LIBRARY AND HAVE ACCESS TO THIS 100 STUFF THERE FOR FREE. THE LIBRARY COULD PAY SOME FEE LIKE THEY DO WITH 101 BOOKS. HOW ABOUT A BUCK AN HOUR FOR NETWORK ACCESS FROM THE HOME? 102 ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))BATPOOP, THE MAGNIFICENT++++++++++++++++++++ 103 [{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]| 104 O melancholy poet, O betrodden one, thou hast inspired me: 105 106 It flows like a river, rapid, but seemingly never ending, 107 Though the stones beneath the surface may be cold, jagged and piercing, 108 Only the smallest of ripples can be seen from above. 109 110 It wails as the brisk winds in the forest in Autumn, 111 Forceful and destructive, yet to be heard only from within, 112 To one who watches from a distance, there is only the gentle bowing of the trees. 113 114 It roars like the thunder on a warm September night, 115 To those who are close, the warning is clear, 116 But the time to beware is past, for ligtning has already struck. 117 118 Then a leaf is torn from the tree by the wind, 119 Falling into the river, it is barely able to remain afloat, 120 Because the ripples so small now seem so big. 121 122 =Apollo= 123 [{[{(*)}]|[{[{(*)}]|[{[{(*)}]|[{[{(*)}]|[{[{(*)}]|[{[{(*)}]|[{[{(*)}]|[{[{(*)}]|[{[{(*)}]|[{[{(*)}]| 124 125 what complete bullshit. How can anyone person spew forth so much of it ? 126 wonders will never cease...unfortunately. 127 128 129 IIIIIIIIIIIII 130 131 132 I#AP230,CC,PB,DT,CB,HC 133 II#AP230,CC,B,DT,CI,HC 134 IIIII#AP230,CC,PB,DT,CB,HC 135 SO THATS WHAT 'ESC I' DOES! 136 WHAT DOES #AP230,CC,PB,DT,CB,HC MEAN ? 137 138 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~ 139 140 Its amazing, its astounding!!! 141 Batpoop agrees with mikey. I agree with Batpoop regarding scientific 142 applications, and since I haven't the slightest business background I am 143 willing to concede that he is probably right on that point also. I percieve 144 that Aaron, Unsigned (or Signed as the case may be) and BAD are also scien- 145 tific/engineering types who may be willing to make the same concession. 146 If so, this means that we are all (at least all who have expressed an opinion 147 on the matter) TOTALLY, WHOLLY, ENTIRELY, UTTERLY, COMPLETELY, 148 UNFLINCHINGLY, WITHOUT THE SLIGHTEST RESERVATION: 149 150 >>>>>IN AGREEMENT!!!<<<<< 151 152 Isn't this boring? Dirty Ol' Man 153 154 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~ 155 I 156 157 ^^-^^^-^^^^^-^^^^^^^-^^^^^^^^^^^-^^^^^^^^^^^^^-^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^-^^-^^^-^^^^^ 158 (un)signed, With your attitude of "I know the answer, but I'm not going to tell 159 you! So there. Nya!", I sincerely hope that you are not involved in research! 160 The strain and mental anguish it would cause you to turn in a report, even 161 worse if something should get published where where we, the ignorant people, 162 could get hold of it, would be too cruel. 163 SINCERELY YOURS THE DOCTOR 164 ^^-^^^-^^^^^-^^^^^^^-^^^^^^^^^^^-^^^^^^^^^^^^^-^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^-^^-^^^-^^^^^ 165 [{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]| 166 O thou uncultured one: 167 168 How perceivest thou thy pass, 169 With thine head up thine @!#%*? 170 171 =Apollo= 172 [{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]| 173 IT WOULD SO SEEM THAT THERE MAY BE INDEED AN AGREEMENT OF SORTS. 174 SAY, HOW ABOUT WE SUE FOR OPTIONAL ZERO HANDLING? I GET ZERO RET 175 THE ENGINEERING TYPES GET INFINITY, AND EVERYBODY ELSE GETS ERRORS! 176 OR IS IT ME WHO GETS ALL THE ERRORS? 177 ********* CISTOP MIKEY ********* 13 SEPT 83 ****** 4:25 ************ 178 ????????? 179 Well here goes. Hi everybody. I'm not quite a new user, since i have been 180 reading messages on this thing for a few months. But I finally decided to 181 stick my big toe in the water and chance a message. I really like the format 182 of this system, and all the interesting people around. I guess the 183 informalness of the format lets people really be themselves. 184 There really are some sharp people around here. You know who you are. I'll 185 try to keep up with the current discussion, whatever that is. 186 187 As to the discussion of /0. I've programmed for a few years, and have 188 occasionally been zapped by /0. But I don't think it should hide the error 189 by returning infinity, especially it because it cant anyway. And returning 190 0 would hide the error, maybe surfacing later in even more strange ways. 191 Sure, its no fun getting an error message, but a program that tries to divide 192 by zero is already doing something wrong, and an error message might be useful. 193 194 I guess a good analogy is that of type checking in compilers. In some languages 195 like Pascal the variables are strongly typed, meaning you cant get away with 196 anything. In others, like LISP, you can get into all sorts of trouble. 197 I dont know which I prefer, but the protection of checking can make debugging 198 easier. 199 Well, there you are! I did it! Since most of you seem to have some kind of 200 handle, now that I'm conversing, I will too. I dont know how you select yours, 201 but here goes. 202 ----------------------------------------------- P. V. Jeltz------------------- 203 To: Robert From: Art 204 Your harder to get a hold of then a greased fish. 205 cul 206 ```````````````````'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' 207 But probably a lot less disgusting. 208 ```````````````````'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' 209 I#AP230,CC,PB,DT,CB,HC 210 I#AP230,CC,PB,DT,CB,HC 211 I#AP230,CC,PB,DT,CB,HC 212 I#AP230,CC,PB,DT,CB,HC 213 I#AP230,CC,PB,DT,CB,HC 214 215 216 217 HMMMM 218 219 IT WORKS! 220 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 221 in the presence of an auto mechanic, one would not say "gee...whats the 222 feasibility of running a car on table salt?" or, say, in a bakery 223 "how 'bout using WD-40 to keep those muffins from sticking?" 224 225 stupid? impossible? Yes, no one would ask those questions. 226 227 BUT............ 228 229 "why cant i hook my rs-232 directly into the phone lines without a 230 modem? I mean, at 1200 baud the signals are well within the audio 231 range and therefore it should be possible to transmit them over a 232 voice line" 233 234 OR............. 235 236 "whats wrong with pulling that ram card out with the power on?" 237 238 "can I abort a disk write operation by turning the drive off?" 239 240 "why does my computer say "SYNTAX ERROR" when I type in "tell 241 me how old I am"?" 242 243 to someone unfamiliar (to various degrees) with computers, these 244 are INTELLIGENT, VALID, AND DEFINATLY WORTH ASKING questions. You 245 would not stand up and say "boy, you have no business owning a 246 computer, you mental neanderthal." (or would you?) I think that 247 I can safely say that no one using BWMS would. (why? probably 248 because we can remember when we would have (or did!) ask those 249 questions) 250 251 BUT........... 252 253 what if the person asking those questions did so at the AI SIG 254 meeting? 255 256 or this person was the EDP manager for your office? 257 258 surprise hardly qualifies ! (a quick check with Roget's......) 259 stupefaction ,agahst, awe-struck, flabergasted might,though....... 260 261 espicially if: 262 263 You had gatherd a group a people together, strangers yet sharing a 264 common bond: their quest for knowledge, their enjoyment of a challenge, 265 their love of intelligent company. As you sit siping your coffee, 266 discussing, say, business applications of the C64 within a small sub- 267 group, while other sub-groups (all in your living room) (rather cozy, 268 informal, just some acquaintances shooting the breeze about all and 269 everything, from politics to poetry) discuss all else, someone pipes 270 up with (he's not in your sub-group, but he's on the couch in front 271 of you and seems to be speaking in rather loud tones) 272 "wow! you guys wanna try something neat? run your finger up and down 273 the PC board of your micro and watch for a lightshow! in fact, if you 274 shuffle you feet across the carpet first, it might even be neater! I 275 do it all the time and WOW! you guys otta! " 276 and concludes with: 277 "it hasnt hurt my computer a bit! " 278 you might be able to stay in your seat and keep your comments to a 279 muffled giggle. We wouldn't want to throw a damper on things, so OK, 280 its his oppinion and its FINE. You continue with your smalltalk, p 281 eraps with your ears just a little more attuned to the voices carring 282 over from the sub-group in front of you. Everythings fine. That is, 283 until you here : 284 "wow! neat! i think ill try that tonite!" 285 and... 286 "gee! what a neat observation! i agree! that might be fun!" 287 288 Now, if you could stop screaming "ARGH! DONT DONT DONT NO NO NO!" 289 for a second, and "IMBICILE ! WHAT ARE YOU TELLING THESE PEOPLE! " 290 and "YOU SHOULDNT BE ALLOWED A COMPUTER, YOU MENTAL NEANDERTHAL!", 291 you would notice that you very QUICKLY changed the WHOLE tone of the 292 evening; its not fun anymore. In fact, your words fell upon deaf ears; 293 they closed the NANO-SECOND you began your abusive (yet justifiable) 294 commentary, and were wasted, you should have said nothing, THE RESULT 295 would have been the same as it will be; these people will simply 296 destroy there computers. 297 298 well, well.....what has been accomplished? NOTHING except DAMAGE 299 300 you pipe up "well, what COULD i have done?" 301 302 the answer? well, lets start with where the problem started. and where 303 is that? when the first hopless said "finger the PC for a good time" 304 if you had said : 305 "excuse me, but i think that that would be detremental to your 306 computer, sir" 307 308 you might get in responce 309 310 "gee really? just who are you? what makes you a know-it-all? " 311 312 which does not help the situation at all....... 313 314 often the response will be: 315 316 "Why?" 317 318 do you feel like discussing the mechanics of CMOS breakthru and 319 leakage enhancement? probably not (at least with this fellow) 320 so...... 321 322 "because it damages the internals of your computer" 323 324 so far you have been responsible... you have 325 a) POLITELY alerted the person to a fallicy in his concepts 326 b) offered an explanation THAT IS APPROPRIATE TO BOTH THE 327 ENVIRONMENT AND THE LEVEL OF THE SUBJECT. 328 329 your responsibility is complete, the ball is in his hands now... 330 331 yet the "enlightend" (supposedly) users of BW are failing at these 332 points.....a) is not accomplished POLIETLY and often b) is ignored, 333 because of the fealing of "this jerk dosnt deserve an answer, if he 334 dosent accept my superior knowledge, so be it" or "im to busy to 335 get into a fruitless discussion with this rookie" 336 337 so solution 1 is for those of us that think we a just a little better 338 (or alot!) to strive to points a and b. i know i fail often....yet 339 there is ALWAYS another chance to succede.. 340 341 well, i said that the ball is in his court now, and it is... 342 343 if he, to start with said the "just who are you, and you are 344 certainly CLOSE-MINDED about new ideas..." line after you 345 r polite interjection, he has fumbled already...... 346 347 It is the RESPONSIBILITY for EVERYONE to realise that there are 348 people WHO KNOW MORE THAN THEY..(gulp! that hard for even me to 349 swallow!) maybe if i rephrase..... 350 351 It is the RESPONSIBILITY for EVERYONE to at least LISTEN to those 352 who are TRYING to help you! (via superior knowledge or not!) 353 354 so....lets assume are hopless did perk up with a "WHY?" and you 355 came up with the "because"..... 356 357 our hopless now has the choice of deciding..... 358 359 1) you dont know of which you speak 360 2) you do know of which you speak 361 3) i need more information 362 363 if he takes choice one: 364 he procedes to talk of such things,ignores your warning.... 365 366 well, thats OK (repeat...OK) 367 368 BUT! he certainly should not be PO'ed if you still take 369 exception...... 370 371 choice 2: 372 373 well ok, youve won, just dont let it go to your head 374 375 376 he takes choice 3: 377 378 you have the option of discussing it further with him,OR NOT ! 379 380 if you choose to explain further....all the better 381 382 but if you choose not to, it is certainly your chioce, and it 383 would be unreasonable for him to go flapping 384 385 "well XXX wouldnt explian it so i dont beleive him and he dumb 386 and ugly and sucks slug s---" 387 388 389 It is the CORRECTEE'S RESPONSIBILITY to realize that not everybody 390 has the time or inclanation to explian the basics of plasma nucleonics, 391 marxism, or AI. 392 393 394 395 sooo.......... that concludes that so i can do a 396 ENDIF (remember the "espicially if" way up there? oh,well i cant either) 397 398 MAYBE, thru these examples, one can gain an insight why there is such 399 a violent reaction on BW when someone says something like "people can 400 travel to alternate dimensions through a black hole" (i KNOW noone 401 said that,i just trying to take a little of my own medicine and avoid 402 getting personal).......... 403 404 a conclusion? well,ok.......... 405 406 We all are intellegent, no question about it. If we can EACH remember 407 that EVERYONE else here has both a BRAIN AND EMOTIONS to accompny 408 it, that would be a good start.Want even a better start? 409 410 The differnce between acting like HUMAN 1983 and HUMAN 1389 is 411 neglidgable in energy expendened, yet ENORMOUS in benifits 412 derived therfrom. 413 414 415 and of course an apology is due to the users who have to tolerate 416 my +150 line diatribe, i just felt it was time for a change to 417 a happy and productive environment here at the inn........ 418 419 Aaron 420 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 421 ******************* 422 423 Boy, that didn't sound like Aaron to me. 424  DP 425 ******************* 426 427 ============================================ 428 hi jim 429 joeduck 430 ============================================ 431 go ducks, go go go go go go go go ducks !!!! 432 433 this message brought to you courtesy of joeduck 434 435 ============================================ 436 BP: no, I am not a FIG leafer, I prefer C. 437 The worst thing program can do when handed garbage is return something 438 that looks good, but isn't, so on /0 I prefer a certain error exit, but 439 the program should NOT crash like most basics do. No the VIC has no 440 on error goto, so you must do your zero checking before you try to divide 441 by it. Please would someone tell me when 0 would be a valid response to 442 a/0? how do you tell this from 0/a? 443 444 Who winterizes computers? 445 ///////////////////////BAD 0531:14-9-83\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ 446 Oops. 447 448 I'm gone for only a few days, and look what happens. A firestorm. I see blood all around. But I'd like to clear up some 449 apparent confusion. Before, I didn't sign any messages, thinking that I was the only (almost only) one that did so. 450 But 3 days ago my computer fell into a deep slumber (I was careless) and couldn't log on. Fine. Great. It seems that 451 along came somebody who also didn't sign their messages. I can't accuse anyone of attempting to forge a non-signature, 452 can I, but the result was an obvious mess. I fear the s**t will fall on me. 453 What do I do? It was my mistake in the first place, since I should have made my messages more identifiable. So I will adopt 454 a nom-de-plume, an AKA, an alias, whatever. Maybe that will stem the tide of confusion. 455 456 I am anonymous, so I will be ANONYMOUS. By this appelation, I not only identify myself, sort of, but I also become 457 the single most prolific source of poetry in the English language (you know, Anon.) (another oops; no, I have never put 458 poetry on this system, and will never) 459 I hope this clears up the confusion, or at least part of it. 460 461 Once I thought that all messages over 50 lines should be banned. But the long message above 462 proves that I was wrong. Thanks, Aaron. 463 464 Anonymous 465 ___________________________________________________________________________ 466 TRON!! DON'T overwrite my msgs! (besides the only reason most of the 467 machines listed are TRS-80s is because those are what I had info on!) 468 I am the person who wrote the section from the beginning of the 469 disk (ln 25) to the (c) notice for QUANTUM DEGENERACY (R). Except 470 (except for the line TRON added in the middle). Apparently my 471 signature got "lost". Oh well..... 472 Now for an applicable quote: 473 474 On any matter not self-evident there are ninety-nine persons totally incapable of understanding it for one who is capable; 475 and the capacity of the hundredth person is only comparitive, for the majority of the eminent men of every past generation 476 held many opinions now known to be erroneous, and did or approved numerous things which no one will attempt to justify...... 477 In the case of any person whose judgement is really deserving of confidence, how has it become so? Because he has felt that 478 the only way in which a human being can make some approach to knowing the whole of a subject is by hearing what can be said of 479 it by persons of every opinion, and studying all modes in which it can be looked at in every character of mind. 480 John Stuart Mill, "On Liberty" 1859 481 482 483 Now #AP230,CC,PB,DT,CB,HC in response to ESC I means that you are 484 running an APPLE using VIDTEX. ESC I is the CIS terminal identification 485 code prompt. I'm not sure what ALL of it means, but CC means your 486 machine supports the CIS Cursor Control ESC sequences. PB means 487 that you support their protocol B transfer (used in ACCESS). I 488 don't know what the rest of them mean but they all are coded info 489 for the CIS computers. I have a TRS-80 Model III & my sequence is 490 #RS633,CC,CW,G4,PB,CB,DT,HC (note: in the code on the disk says 491 233, not 633) CW is control width (64 or 32 char screen). G4 is a 492 LOW res graphics mode (color), my machine "simulates" the colors. 493 If you wish, I'll see if HC, CB, & DT are in my notes. (WARNING: 494 VIDTEX allows EXTENSIVE remote control of your machine. The screen 495 and/or keyboard can be enabled/disabled, the buffer can be opened 496 closed or zeroed, ALL REMOTELY! Worse, if someone knows how, they 497 can enable the prtocol b transfer & access your disks!) 498 _________________________Leonard___________________________ 499 500 PHOTO EQUIPMENT FOR SALE-A NIKON 35 MM-ALPS AUTO TELE-CONVERTER,2X 501 MULTI-COATED WITH NIKON LENS SERIES E 50MM(1:1.8)AND A VIVITAR MACRO 502 FOCUSING (FULL)ZOOM LENS-75-205MM(1:3.8)-PRICE FOR ALL,200.00 OR BEST 503 OFFER-CALL RICK AT 287-xxxx.HAVE A GOOD ONE......................... 504 505 506 THANKS LEONARD..... IF THERE IS ONE THING I DISLIKE IT IS A TERMINAL PGM DOING THINGS BEHIND YOUR KEYBOARD.... 507 508 -RR- 509 510 511 )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))+ 512 TO LEONARD: IS THERE ANYTHING YOU KNOW OF ON THE SOURCE AND COMPUSERVE 513 TO PROTECT ONESELF FROM TIME THIEVES CHARGING ONES ACCOUNT? 514 TO AARON: WAS THAT REALLY YOU? 515 516 OK, HOW ABOUT THIS EXAMPLE OF 0/0 IF YOU DIDN'T LIKE THE LAST ONE. YOU 517 ARE A BUSINESSPERSON IN CHARGE OF PURCHASING. YOU WANT TO GET THE BEST RATE 518 OF 'TURNS' ON INVENTORY POSSIBLE, TO PRODUCE THE BEST POSSIBLE PROFIT FOR 519 YOUR DOLLARS AVAILABLE FOR INVENTORY. THE 'TURNS' ARE GIVEN BY 520 UNITS SOLD/AVERAGE QUANTITY IN INVENTORY. IF A PRODUCT WAS OUT OF STOCK 521 THAT MONTH YOU STILL WANT IT ON THE REPORT, UNLESS THE ITEM HAS BEEN DIS- 522 CONTINUED. YOU MAY HAVE HAD ORDERS, WHICH BECOME BACKORDERS. THIS FIGURE 523 WILL APPEAR ON THE REPORT AS WELL. IF YOU HAD NO QUANTITY IN INVENTORY 524 YOU WILL HAVE HAD NO SALES. THUS YOU HAVE NO TURNS. 525 0 TURNS=0 SALES/0 INVENTORY. THIS FIGURE IS MEANINGFUL, BECAUSE OF THE 526 BACKORDER FIGURES. IF YOU HAD BACKORDERS, YOU MADE A MISTAKE IN HAVING 527 NO INVENTORY AND THUS NO SALES, BECAUSE PEOPLE WANTED TO BUY. THE 528 SITUATION OF BACKORDERS WITH NO SALES BUT INVENTORY, A 'LEGAL' FORMULATION, 529 IS NOT GOING TO OCCUR (0 TURNS=0 SALES/SOME INVENTORY QUANTITY) BECAUSE 530 IF YOU HAD INVENTORY YOU WOULD HAVE HAD SALES. NOW BY LOOKING AT ONLY 531 TWO , PERHAPS ADJACENT, COLUMNS ON THE REPORT YOU CAN TELL FROM THE BACKORDER 532 COLUMN IF 0 TURNS MEANS NO INVENTORY (/0) WHEN THE BACKORDERS ARE POSITIVE. 533 IF BACKORDERS ARE 0 YOU CHECK INVENTORY TO ELIMINATE THE POSSIBILITY OF 534 'DEAD' ITEMS IN STOCK (MEANING HAVE A SALE). THIS IS ONE WAY YOU CAN NOT 535 ONLY SAFELY IGNORE THE RESULT OF THE CALCULATION 0=0/0 BUT USE IT IN A 536 POSITIVE MANNER. THIS IS HOW IT IS OFTEN DONE. ON SOME COMPUTERS YOU 537 STILL NEED TO DO THE ERROR TRAPPING, HOWEVER, TO KEEP THE PROGRAM FROM 538 BLOWING UP AND FORCING AN OPERATER TO RESTART THE JOB. 539 )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))BATPOOP, THE MAGNIFICENT+++++++++++++ 540 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~ 541 542 Batpoop: Thanks for the example. As mentioned earlier I am about as adept 543 at business applications as a butterfly at scuba diving, so it will require 544 some pondering on my part. In the mean time, your handle has reminded me 545 of a question which has been lurking in the back of my mind for quite some 546 time now. Perhaps you or someone else with knowledge in this area can en- 547 lighten me. Is it true that bats hang up side down in caves, and if so, how 548 do they release their biological by-product without getting very, very 549 messy? 550 551 Dirty Ol' Man 552 553 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~ 554 ------------------------------------------------------------------ 555 Atari's also do error trapping, in fact the trap routine can 556 determine the particular error and the program line that the 557 error occured -- so that you can take the appropriate action 558 without bombing your program! 559 --------------Atari User (and proud of it)------------------------ 560 Discrimination! That's all we hear on this system! Discrimination. 561 Whenever any of you want to criticize someone, you always call him 562 a Neanderthal. Well, for your information, the Cro Magnons I've 563 talked to were just and dumb, ugly, mean, and violent as any 564 Neanderthal. But they're not even given equal time. I thought the 565 Fairness Doctrine Applied to this system, too. Let's be fair, guys. 566 Call somebody a Cro-Magnon today, and even the score. 567 568 (The preceeding was a political announcement donated to 569 the Cro-Magnon Equality Organization in reply to all 570 the mentions of the Neanderthals.) 571 ------------------------------------------------------------------ 572 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 573 yes, Batpoop, 'twas I.................. 574 575 BAD: any news on that strangness I gave you? 576 Aaron 577 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 578  579 }[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] 580 ACTUALLY, NEANDERTHALS AND CRO-MAGNONS HAD AVERAGE BRAIN SIZES LARGER THAN MEN TODAY. THE NEANDERTHAL'S BRAIN WAS 581 EQUIVALENT TO MODERN MAN IN MOST AREAS, WITH THE INCREASE IN SIZE IN THE PART OF THE BRAIN DEDICATED TO EYESIGHT, WHILE 582 THE CRO-MAGNON'S BRAIN WAS LARGER IN THE FOREBRAIN AREA. THIS DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY WERE SMARTER THAN MODERN HUMANS, 583 AS INTELLIGENCE IS DETERMINED BY A LOT OF OTHER THINGS BESIDES ABSOLUTE SIZE, SUCH AS THE NUMBER OF NEURONS BETWEEN 584 THE VARIOUS SECTIONS, DIET, ETC.. AND IT WOULD BE ILLOGICAL TO REFER TO THEM AS STUPID, SINCE WE HAVE NO WAY OF 585 TELLING EXACTLY HOW SMART THEY WERE. FOR SOME REASON, THERE WERE NO I.Q. TESTS AT THAT TIME, WHICH SHOWS THEY WERE 586 A LOT MORE INTELLIGENT THAN WE GIVE THEM CREDIT FOR. 587 AARON, AARRRGH!!! OK, FINE, I'LL PICK THE SUBJECT. FROM THE LAST 10 588 DISKS OR SO, I WOULD HAVE TO SAY THAT VERY FEW PEOPLE KNOW HOW TO EXPRESS WHAT THEY WANT TO SAY WHEN THEY MUST DO IT 589 NON-VERBALLY. IN FACT, WHILE I HAVE A LOT OF RESPECT FOR THE OBVIOUS KNOWLEDGE AND INTELLIGENCE OF THE PATRONS OF 590 THE INN, IT BOTHERS ME TO SEE THAT SO MANY OF THEM SEEM TO LACK KNOWLEDGE OF THE RULES OF LOGIC AND ARGUMENT. WHEN 591 I WAS IN SCHOOL (I'M REALLY NOT AS OLD AS THAT MAKES ME SOUND), THE BASIC RULES OF LOGIC, ARGUMENT, AND CRITICAL 592 THINKING WERE TAUGHT ALONG WITH GRAMMER AND CREATIVE WRITING AT THE HIGH SCHOOL LEVEL. APPARENTLY THAT ISN'T SO NOW, 593 AS AD HOMINEM, DICTO SIMPLICITER, AND BEGGING THE QUESTION APPEAR FREQUENTLY IN MUCH OF THE WRITING HERE. WHY IS 594 THIS? IS IT TAUGHT, BUT JUST IGNORED? OR HAS IT BEEN ABANDONED ENTIRELY? 595 C'MON, AARON, YOU HAVE MANY ANSWERS, SO WHAT'S THE ANSWER TO THIS? 596 597 [][][][][][][][][][][][]PAM.[][][][][][] 598 Another example of /0, consider that inventory tax is due. Now consider 599 (for the sake of easy calculation) that the tax is 1% of the value of the 600 goods in inventory. Now if we have 100 widgets at a value of $10 each, then 601 the total tax for the items would be $10. 100 X $10 = $1000 / .01 = $10 602 Now if we have 0 thing-a-majigs, which have a value of $1 each, then the 603 total tax would be $0. 0 X $1 = $0 / .01 = $0. 604 Please note that I do not necesarily feel that zero MUST be the value returned 605 from the equation, it is only that I am expressing my frustration that 606 someone decided to make the program blow if a divide by zero occured. 607 Thus I must do a check each time I perform an equation of this sort. This can 608 be very difficult if the equation is extensive (and if you ever delt with taxes 609 they are unbeleivibly complex!). 610 ******* CISTOP MIKEY ******* 9:30 PM ********** 14 SEPT 83 ***************** 618 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~ 619 620 Good grief, in consideration of the number of times I have attempted to 621 call and found the line busy in the last 24 hours (about 100+), 622 I expected that we would be 3/4 the way through the next disk by now. 623 I hate to suggest such a thing, but perhaps we should have a time limit. 624 I think six hours should be adequate to read the entire contents of both 625 disks 27 times, compose 12 medium length poems, criticize 14 other 626 BWMS users, and enter into meticulous 627 deliberation on eight unfamiliar subjects. 628 Dirty Ol' Man 629 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~