LIST FILE ON MARGIN IS 128 STATUS: ALL ALLOWED NUMBER OF LINES: 617 1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask.... 2 ************************* REMOVED: 16 OCT 83 ************************ 3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System) Mike Day System operator 4 ************************************************************ 5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION PLACED ON 6 THIS SYSTEM. 7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privatly owned 8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public. 9 No restrictions are placed on the use of the system. 10 It is intended that the system be normally used for messages and 11 advertisments by the users. As the system is privatly owned, I retain the 12 right to remove any and all messages which I may find offensive 13 to me. Additionally because of the limited size of the system, it will be 14 periodically purged of older messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved) 15 The saved information will be cycled to drive 'B' while the information on 16 drive 'B' will be archived, and a fresh disk will be installed in drive 'A'. 17 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out 18 of the enter mode. The message is automaticly stored. 19 If after entering the message you find you made a mistake, 20 use the replace command to replace the line. 21 To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up. 22 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system. 23 ======================================== 24 What kind of liberals are you referring to when you say 'us liberals', CYM? Are you talking about the Traditional 25 Liberals, who believed in the power of the individual and rejected big government and all the interference that went 26 along with it. Or are you talking about the New Liberals, who love big government and all of its taxes and 27 interference. Or perhaps you speak of the bleeding-heart liberals, who blame themselves and practically everyone else 28 for the 'downtrodden minorities'. There are big differences between the types of liberals I mentioned. Unfortunately 29 in our attempts to categorize people, we forget that a single name, 'liberal', means wildly different things to 30 different people. 31 The same comment goes for you, Hrothgar. If you wanted Reagan to 'balance the budget, get government off the backsfsalbs 32 liberalism that existed before this century, before the liberals found out that they, too, could manipulate the 33 population as well as any conservative. 34 That's to your credit, Hrothgar. But perhaps you consider yourself the 'laughingstock of my liberal friends' 35 because you don't check your facts: Reagan was inaugurated January 1981, and as such has been our president 2 years and0mnh.( 36 traffic controllers. They are attributed by most people to the recent influx of Mariel Cubans inadvertently invited by 37 Reagan to come to America. Of course, you can certainly blame Reagan for that, if you wish. However, typical liberals 38 are often criticizing conservatives for 'closing freedom's door' by restricting immigration. In that one isolated 39 incident, Reagan was more 'liberal' than many liberals I've heard. 40 Also, it is distoring the issue to blame airline accidents on Reagan and his actions. Airline accidents occur 41 relatively infrequently, maybe twice a year or a little more. Statistically, the variance in accidents could double the 42 number of accidents in a year without being significant. (Comparison: The number of auto fatalities is large, around 43 50,000 per year, and is relatively constant per year.) 44 And should we blame Reagan for the recession(depression, whatever) that has occurred in the last 3 years? That's a 45 good question. But first, answer this. At what point does a president (any president) become responsible for the 46 economy, etc, after he's taken office? Surely not on his second day in office? Or his third? But when? I won't answer 47 this question, since a person's answer usually depends on whether he likes the current administration. But I sometimes 48 wonder how much real power an administration has to make things happen/not happen. We all know that the Federal Reservesapwru 49 know that the Fed has acted unusually independantly of most Presidents. Indeed, much of a President's power is his 50 ability to push for tax/spending bills (often over the objections of Congress) But this is a slow procedure. 51 I don't know. But I didn't vote for Reagan. Or Carter. Or Anderson. I voted for someone who WOULD, if elected, 52 have 'balanced the budget, get the government off the backs of small business'. He might not have had government 'fund 53 more scientific research', because that isn't the proper function of government. 54 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Anon:::::::::::::::::: 55 P.S. Upload still doesn't work perfektlee. 56 To ALL hi 57 58 59 60 To ALL, Everyone, and especialy YOU, I have a VIC-20 for sale with a 61 16k ram module with dp/sw and 6 game cartridges. All in new condition 62 with Programers Reference Guide. 63 Call 255-0583 after4:00pm, ask for Darrin 64 65 --------------------------------HI 66 THIS IS A FIRST TIME USER HERE AT THIS BOARD AND WANT TO SAY IT IS GREAT. 67 I'VE READ THE LETTERS BUT NEVER SAID ANYTHING.SO THE FIRST THING I WOULD 68 LIKE TO TALK ABOUT IS THE RAJNEESHIES!! 69 I MY SELF AM NOT ANY SORT OF RELIGON AND NEVER WILL BE(MOST 70 LIKELY NEVER WILL BE). 71 ANY WAY MY THOUGHT ON IT IS SCREW THEN AND GET THEM THE HELL OUT OF HERE! 72 IT SEEMS THE "GOVERNMENT" IS TO AFRAID OF THEM FOR SOME REASON. 73 THEY HAVE NO USE TO OREGON AND ARE ONLY STARTING SOMETHING THAT WILL NOT END 74 FOR A LONG TIME AND NOT WITH OUT A HELL OF A FIGHT! 75 THE THING THAT SCARES ME IS I DON'T KNOW WHO WILL WIN. 76 SPEAKING FOR MYSELF AND A HELL OF A LOT OF MY FRIENDS "OVER MY 77 DEAD BODY" 78 79 80 ----------------------MOSES-------------- 81 END 82 Hey `ll you doggie `ooerr! 83 hat do y/u think you are doing??????? Why don't you 84 go and eat some doggie dung!! 86 ^^^^^COSMO^^^ Ignoring the previousmessage... 87 Alright! That's what we need more of- sprited discussion. As I, and 88 some others around here, are new to this communication medium 89 , and out of a desire to further explore its potential as a communication 90 tool, I'd like to initiate lengthly discussion with a couple of thoughts 91 offered up by some other individuals... 92 "Whoever in discussion sights authority as supportive evidence uses not 94 97 intelligence but memory. 98 99 100 "Opinions are just that." 101 106 107 I fell opinions should be brought ot into the open for discussion and 108 evaluation lest they assume the form of fact. I get the distinct 109 impression that it is not possible or people to be truly authoritative 110 because most issues lie outside ther personal experience. 111 Let's seek out the opinions of othes, compare them to our own, and 112 come to some rational consensus regarding our opinions factual base. 113 For example: I don't like the [ajneeshies, nor do I like organized 114 religon. I also don't like being told what to believe(in), nor I'm sre 115 do they. If it weren't for the personal rigths we as a society advocate 116 I'd force them out of Oregon to somplace like Midway Island. But, would 117 i be any better then they? Certainly no worse? 118 I used to consider myself a liberal but I find liberalism more and more 119 to be a out of step with the times. 120 Like a pendulum, I think its time fr liberalism to stand down temorarily 121 while rational and mre conservative methods are ipracticed for the health 122 of our country. I think it is time for people to concern themselvs 123 with the nations natural resource clled youth, and stimulating educaton 124 for said resource. Support your kids curiosity, their education, ther 125 schools. Provide them exemplary role models, facilitate their learning, 126 encourage their inquisitivness, make them more accountable for their actions 127 Support the drive for increased mat and science requirments. Instill in thm 128 a strong sense of responsibilty. DemonstrAte to them the type of person 129 you would like them to be. Above al, don't be imposing. Good night. 130 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 131 132 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~ 133 134 To whomever: 135 Regarding the UHF Bandit I have made the following observations: 136 1) He is the only one reporting activiy on channel 61. 137 2) He declines to indicate the transmission times. 138 3) He declines to indicate his general location. 139 4) He declines to indicate the type of programming. 140 5) Either he is not a regular on BWMS or he declines to identify himself. 141 In consideration of the above, I have come to the conclusion that he is at- 142 tempting to administer to us a GQ (Gullibility Quotient) test. 143 144 Mikey: Will your modem recieve slower than 300 baud? If so, maybe that 145 would reduce the errors. 146 147 Cosmo: I don't mean to be picky, but it might be easier to keep track of 148 who's writing what if you signed at the bottom instead of the top. 149 Anyway, welcome; you have helped to balance the Heathen:Religious Fanatic 150 ratio. (You too, Moses.) 151 152 Anon: Perhaps a pres is not to blame (or credit) for the economy on the 153 day following his inauguration, but he is most likely responsible for any 154 significant changes in the TREND of the economy. (I should have said 155 largely responsible, not completely.) In this light, Reagon's image is not 156 much improved. 157 158 Dirty Ol' Man 159 160 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~ 161 162 163 PS to Mikey: Never mind previous question. I tried it at 110 baud; 164 it didn't work. 165 166 Dirty 167 168 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~ 169 170 ######################################## 171 TO CLARIFY THE LIBERAL VS CONSERVATIVE EXPLANATION ONE SHOULD USE THE ST 172 STANDARD DEFINITIONS: LIBERAL=PRO LABOR,WORKING CLASS & DISADVANTAGED; CO 173 CONSERVATIVE=BUSINESS, PROFIT, GET THE GOVERNMENT OFF MY BACK, TO HELL WITH 174 EVERYONE THAT DOESN'T MAKE HIS OWN WAY WETHER HE/SHE CAN OR NOT. 175 REAGAN AND HIS WHOLE GANG DEFINATELY FALL INTO THE LATTTER CATAGORY. 176 AIR SAFETY, AUTO SAFETY, CONSUMER SAFETY AS A WHOLE HAVE DEFINATELY SUFFERED 177 SINCE DAY ONE OF REAGONS PRESIDENCY. NO ONE ELSE IS TO BLAME! ALL THE GO 178 GORSICHES,WATTS,HAIGS ETC ARE JUST RUBBER STAMPING WHAT REAGAN STANDS FOR. 179 I AM THE FIRST TO ADMIT THAT CSACARTER WAS NO JEWEL BUT LOOKING BACK THE T 180 TRACK RECORDS FOR THE LIBERALS IS A HELL OF A LOT BETTER THAN FOR THE CO 181 CONSERVATIVES. 182 AS TO THE DEFENSE OF OUR LAND, WITH PEOPLE LIKE THE PRESENT ADMIBIDTINISTRAT 183 WE WON'T HAVE ANYTHING LEFT TO DEFEND. 184 DEPLEAT ALL OUR RESOURCES, TURN ALL OUR TECHNOLOGY OVERER TO THE JAPANESE, 185 WHAT DO WE HAVE LEFT TO DEFEND? AS FOR THE JAPANESE, WE COULD TAKE SOME L 186 LESSONS FROM THEM, THEY DON'T RAVAGE THEIR LAND! THEY USE EVERY INCH OF IT 187 TO IT'T BEST POTENTIAL BUT THIS DOES NOT MEAN STRIP MINING ETC. FOR EVERY 188 ITEM THEY TAKE FROM THE ENVIRONMENT THEY REPLACE IT TO KEEP THE BALANCE, M 189 MUCH AS OUR OWN NATIVE AMERICANS DID BEFORE WE STOLE THIS LAND FROM THEM. 190 THE JAPANESE DO WHAT THEY DO BEST, MAKE THE MOST OUT OF THE LEAST FOR THE 191 MANY, WE USED TO DO THIS BUT NOW WE ARE MAKING THE MOST FOR THE FEW PRI 192 PRIVELEDGED PEOPLE THAT ARE STRIPPING THIS LAND FOR THEIR OWN POCKETBOOKS. 193 ONE OF THE BEST EXAMPLES IS THE STEEL INDUSSTRY WHERE THE MANAGEMENT JUST 194 KEPT PRODUCING AND INVESTING THEIR PROFITS ALL ALL OVER THE PLACE BUT NOT 195 BACK INTO THE STEEL BUSINESS, THEN THEY COMPLAIN THAT THEY CAN'T MAKE ANY 196 MONEY COMPETING WITH THE FOREIGN SOURCES. 197 198 ################C.Y.M.#############################10/13 6:46AM############# 199 P.S 200 MIKEY: ANY CHANCE OF YOUR SYSTEM SUPPORTIN THE DELETE KEY IN MY S OR OTHER 201 SYSTEMMS? 202 203 ########################################################C>Y>M>############## 204 205 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] 206 ANON, I THINK THAT THE MARIEL BOAT-LIFT WAS A CARTER MISTAKE, NOT A REAGAN ONE. IT WAS A SPEECH BY CARTER TO THE 207 LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS IN TEXAS WHEREIN HE MENTIONED THAT THE U.S. BORDERS WERE STILL OPEN TO ANY AND ALL THAT WANTED 208 TO COME HERE THAT GAVE CASTRO THE CHANCE TO EMPTY HIS JAILS OF SOME OF HIS WORST PROBLEM OFFENDERS. IT WAS A CYNICAL 209 (AND SUCCESSFUL) ATTEMPT TO MAKE US LOOK BAD, AND TO SHOW THAT WE REALLY DO NOT TAKE ANY AND ALL WHO WANT TO COME HERE. 210 ON THE LIBERAL/CONSERVATIVE DEBATE, THE CONCEPT OF CONSERVATIVE HAS CHANGED SOMEWHAT OVER THE YEARS. ALONG WITH 211 THE DEFINITIONS GIVEN ABOVE, THEY WERE NOTED FOR BEING SLOW TO CHANGE ANYTHING, EXAMINING AN ISSUE TO DEATH BEFORE 213 GOING ALONG (IF THEY DID). THE REAGAN TYPE CONSERVATIVE IS CONSERVATIVE IN ALL WAYS EXCEPT THIS ONE. REAGAN SEEMS TO 214 THINK VERY LITTLE, LEAVING THAT TO HIS CABINET IF IT INTERFERES WITH WHAT HE IS DOING IN HIS PERSONAL LIFE. AND HE 215 DEMONSTRATES WHY I AM NOT FOND OF THE ANECDOTE IN ARGUMENT: WITH HIS NATIONAL EXPOSURE, HE CAN USE AN ANECDOTE (OF 216 DUBIOUS ORIGIN AND TRUTH) TO PROVE SOME OUTLANDISH POINT (SUCH AS TREES THAT ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR MORE POLLUTION THAN 217 COAL-FIRED POWER PLANTS). 218 I HAVE FOLLOWED MR. REAGANS CAREER FOR A LONG TIME, AND I SOMETIMES WONDER IF HE REMEMBERS ANYTHING HE HAS DONE. 219 IT WAS UNDER HIS GOVERNORSHIP THAT THE TAXES IN CALIFORNIA INCREASED AT SUCH A DRAMATIC RATE AND EVENTUALLY BROUGHT 220 ABOUT PROPOSITION 13. IT WAS HIS LITTLE ADMINISTRATION THAT DESTROYED THE TAX BASE FOR THE SCHOOLS, EVENTUALLY 221 TURNING A STATE THAT WAS #1 IN LEARNING IN BOTH PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION INTO ONE THAT WASN'T EVEN IN THE TOP 222 20. AND DURING HIS TENURE THERE, HIS STANDS ON FOREIGN POLICY WERE A JOKE, AS HE ADVOCATED INVADING OTHER COUNTRIES 223 ON 12 OCCASIONS. I ASSUME THAT THIS WAS JUST RHETORIC, BECAUSE I DON'T THINK HE IS THAT STUPID, BUT IT IS THE KIND OF 224 THING THAT CAN MAKE ONE NERVOUS. 225 ONE CAN GO ON FOREVER ON THIS, WITH COMMENTS ABOUT HIS APPOINTING PEOPLE TO HEAD DEPARTMENTS WHO ARE HOSTILE TO 226 THE VERY PURPOSE OF THE DEPARTMENT, HIS OFFENDING OUR ALLIES WHENEVER POSSIBLE, APPOINTING COMMISIONS TO STUDY PROBLEMS 227 AND THEN ONLY ACCEPTING THEIR REPORT IF IT AGREES WITH HIS OWN PRECONCEPTIONS, ETC., ETC., BUT WHEN IT IS ALL SAID, 228 WE STILL HAVE HIM FOR OVER A YEAR. URP, PASS ME THE ALKA-SELZER...... 229 [][][][][][][][][][][]PAM-[][][][][][][] 230 ######################################## 231 HOPEFULLY THERE WON'T BE ANOTHE 4 YRS OF REAGAN AND HIS ILK, IF SO THEN WE'LL ALL NEED MORE THAN ALKA-SELTZER.: LOOKING BACK ON 232 THE LAST REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTS, IT SEEMS STRANGE THAT EACH HAS PERCIPITATED A RECESSION AND/OR DEPRESSION GOING BACK TO HOOVER. 233 WE HAD IT WITH IKE, NIXON, FORD (ALTHOUGH HIS WAS INHERITED FROM THE CROOK BEFORE HIM, AND NOW REAGAN. WHEN WILL THE AMERICAN 234 PEOPLE GET SOME SMARTS? GUESS IT'S A LITTLE LIKE BANGING ONES HEAD AGAINST A BRICK WALL, 235 SURE FEELS GOOD WHEN YOU STOP. GUESS WE NEED A FEW LUMPS IN ORDER TO APPRECIATE WHAT WE HAVE. 236 237 #################C.Y.M.################################10/12 2:51PM############# 238 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 239 Re: The UHF Bandit 240 I believe he's one of the systops for the Corkboard BBS. As for Channel 61, 241 I can receive it faintly (from NE Portland). It's a religious/Moral Majority 242 type station. Not really worth the effort unless you're into that sort of 243 thing. 244 Warner 245 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 246 247 RE: LIBERAL VS. CONSERVATIVE 248 I AM SOMEWHAT CONSERVATIVE IN MY POLICIES FINACIALLY, AND YET BY PARTY I AM A LEBERTARIAN. GET THE GOVERNMENT 249 OFF OF OUR BACK IS THE MAJOR TENET OF LIBERTARIANISM. IF WE COULD, IT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE A LIBERTARIAN 250 WORLD GOVERNMENT, IE. NO NEED FOR WARS, JUST PERSONAL FREEDOM. SINCE THAT IS NOT POSSIBLE, I FEEL THAT A STRONG 251 MILITARY IS MANDATORY, IN ORDER TO PRESERVE FREEDOM IN WHAT SMALL WAY WE HAVE IT. 252 253 I HAVE SOME RESERVATIONS ABOUT THE STATEMENT THAT PEOPLE SHOULD 'MAKE IT THEMSELVES, WHETHER THEY CAN OR NOT' 254 FURTHER UP THE BOARD. LOOK AT THE EXAMPLES AROUND US, MARTIN LUTHER KING, HELEN KELLER, STEVIE WONDER ... 255 THESE ARE ALL PEOPLE WHO WOULD BE THOUGHT TO BE AMONG THOSE WHO 'CANNOT MAKE IT', YET EACH IS A STORY OF 256 PERSONAL TRIUMPH OVER ODDS. THE GENERAL CONSENSUS IN THE FIELD OF PSYCHOLOGISTS IS THAT AN AVERAGE HUMAN 257 USES LESS THAN 10 % OF HER/HIS BRAIN CAPACITY. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR FAILURE, THE ONLY REAL REASON FOR 258 FAILURE IS GIVEN (AND YOU FIND TRUTH IN THE STRANGEST PLACES) IN THE MOVIE ROCKY III, WHEN ROCKY TELLS 259 PAULY THAT HE IS A NO GOOD BUM, AND THINKS THE WORLD OWES HIM A LIVING. THAT IS NOT AN EXCUSE, NOT ONE 260 PERSON IS BEYOND THE CAPABILITY TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS/HER ACTIONS. I SAY NO TO WELFARE, BUT YES 261 TO WORKFARE AND RETRAINING PROGRAMS, TO BE PAID BACK. THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED ON THE BASIS OF FREEDOM, 262 PERSONAL FREEDOM. THAT FREEDOM GIVES US THE POWER TO SUCCEED OR TO FAIL, AND THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT HAVE THE 263 RIGHT TO TAKE EITHER OF THOSE FREEDOMS AWAY, AND IT CANNOT TAKE ONE WITHOUT THE OTHER. 264 265 (AN INTERESTING POINT, AND SHAMES THE MEMORY OF OUR FOUNDING FATHERS, IS THAT FREEDOM WAS PROCLAIMED FOR 266 WHITE MALES, ABOVE AGE 21, WHO OWNED REAL PROPERTY. SAD BUT TRUE. SOME THINGS MUST CHANGE, BUT NOT THE 267 ORIGINAL GIFT.) 268 269 I DID NOT HAVE THE OPORTUNITY TO FIGHT FOR MY COUNTRY IN WAR, BUT I MOST CERTAINLY WILL FIGHT IN PEACE AND FROM WITHIN. 270 271 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] DJJ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][ 272 273 FIRST POINT: SUPPORTING THE "POOR" OR ANY OTHER GROUP IS FINE..... 274 AS LONG AS THE SUPPORT LEVEL REQUIRED DOESN'T PENALIZE THE PEOPLE 275 DEFINED AS THE SUPPORTERS. 276 277 SECOND POINT: SOCIAL SERVICES TAKE (BY THE GOVERNMENT'S OWN ACCOUNTING) 278 50% OF THE TAXES COLLECTED. THAT'S THE 50% I WANT TO STOP PAYING. 279 280 THIRD POINT: DID YOU EVER NOTICE THAT MOST OF THE ABORTION LAWS ARE 281 PROPOSED, BROUGHT TO A VOTE, AND PASSED BY MEN. WHAT A JOKE! 282 283 FOURTH POINT: CRIME IN THE STREETS WOULD BE VERY MUCH LESS IF WE ALL 284 USED DEADLY FORCE TO DEFEND. 285 286 287 **************BLIND SCREAMING RED NECK******************************** 288 Cmon, CYM, you are ready to blame republicans for any recession at all. What we now tend to forget is the time during 289 the 70's with inflation of >10%. What caused this? Well, partly the oil embargo, but inflation soared during the 290 early seventies too, far greater than the 1-2% usual during the sixties. This, as nearly all economists will 291 admit, was due to the costs of the Vietnam war, because the government was unwilling to raise taxes sufficiently to pay 292 for it. (Regardless of what you think of the war, it was expensive). And Nixon, while he didn't stop the war as fast 293 as most of us liked, (as far as I know) we had already reached a peak number of soldiers in Vietnam by the end of 294 the Johnson administration! So much of the double-digit inflation of the seventies, and its corresponding recession, was 295 actually due to the Democrats! 296 And what with the oil embargo/shock causing a tremendous upheaval in the cost of living/doing business, it is 297 unfair to say that the guy who happened to be president at that time should be saddled with the full blame. 298 We were headed into the current recession when Carter left office. While we may speculate on the possibility that 299 it wouldn't have lasted as long as it did had Reagan done something differently, or might have been less severe, I still 300 people wondering if we would EVER return to the days of 5% inflation. 301 Anyway, it seems certain that whatever mistakes Reagan makes today will be blamed on whichever president is elected 302 for the 1985-1989 term (perhaps Reagan himself.) The economy is like a ocean liner, steered by three oars: one held 303 by the president, one held by the Congress, and one held by the Federal Reserve. Things happen very slowly, and when they do 304 (especially if they're bad) the president is the main one getting the blame! 305 Recovery from this recession could have been botched if the Fed had raised the money supply too fast: Three years down the 306 road, tremendous inflation, etc. But for the short-term, everything would have looked rosy. If you are willing to trade 307 long-term security for short-term political gains, that's what you would get. 308 =================================================== Anon ==================== 309 ######################################## 310 IT'S A LOT EASIER TO EAT WHEN ONE HAS A JOB AND MONEY COMING IN EVEN WITH INFLATION. 311 WHO CAN LIVE ON CHEESE HANDOUTS NO MATTER HOW LOW THE COST OF LIVING INDEX IS. 312 YES, "ANON" I CAN AND DO BLAME THE RECESSION ON REAGAN. HE WAS GIVEN MORE THAN HIS SHARE OF SUPPORT BY THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE 313 WHEN HE TOOK OFFICE. THEY WENT ALONG WITH HIS POLICIES HOPING THEY WOULD WORK. 314 OBVIOUSLY THEY HAVE'NT! THERE IS STILL ABOUT 11% UNEMPLOYMENT IN SPITE OF THE PHONY GOVERNMENT FIGURES THAT DON'T TAKE IN ALL 315 THOSE THAT HAVE GIVEN UP. 316 ON THE OTHER SUBJECT, THERE ARE PROBABLY 200,000 PERSONS OUT THERE FOR EVERY EXCEPTIONAL HELLEN KELLER, MARTIN LUTHER KING, ETC 317 THAT IS A VERY BAD EXAMPLE OF BEING ABLE TO DO FOR ONESELF. AS FOR THE MOVIE ROCKIE, YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING QUOTING THAT JERK 318 319 ################C.Y.M.#################################10/12 6:27PM############# 320 CYM: I hate to tell you this but trees ARE a major contributor to 321 air pollution (if you figure total tonnage, NOT concentration). Also, YOU have to be kidding when you say that the House & Sena 322 supported Reagan's policies. They did so ONLY when it didn't conflict 323 with their own policies. Finally, I once saw a chart comparing 324 (by inflation rate, I believe) all the adminstrations this century. 325 It had them broken down into 4 categories, Republican president- 326 Republican Congress, Republican president-Democratic Congress, 327 Democratic president-Democratic Congress, & Democratic president- 328 Republican Congress. The rate seemed to be more dependant on Congress 329 than the president, but (as I recall) things were "better" when 330 congress & the president were of different parties & "best" when 331 we had a Republican president & a Democratic congress. Maybe we 332 should get rid of the Republicans in Congress? 333 334 Cosmo: I wish you hadn't mentioned that bit with the sounding rocket. 335 That is NOT the kind of info that needs to be spread around. 336 You also underestimate the effects. The satellite will be moving at 337 AT LEAST 5 miles per second relative to those nails. They won't 338 merely "remove all external protuberances", ONE NAIL would destroy 339 a medium size satellite! (and it would probably be hit by several) 340 One reason we don't need this to be spread around is because the 341 John Birch Society (or some other group of "right wing" radicals) 342 could "shoot down" the Soviet space station for about $10,000. Or 343 someone who disliked us (or at least the space program) could 344 shoot down a shuttle just as cheaply. 345 Do you REALLY want to spread that kind of info around? 346 _________________________Leonard________________________________ 347 IT LOOKS LIKE TO ME WHAT EVER PARTY WE HAVE IN OFFICE THERE WELL BE A PRETTY GOOD AMOUNT OF PEOPLE THAT WON'T LIKE IT. 348 SOME ONE ANSWER ME THIS WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME 80 OR MORE LIKE THE PARTY IN OFFICE? (AND IF THEY CAN'T WHY NOT) 349 MOSES 350 -----------------PS---------------- 351 ANY HELP FOR A FELLOW ZORKER? 352 353 ######################################## 354 LEONARD: YOU ARE READING THE WRONG ITEMS ATTRIBUTING THEM TO ME. I MADE NO 355 MENTIUION OF THE TREE VS COAL. THAT WAS SOMEONE ELSE. 356 YOU COMPLETELY MISS THE POINT ABOUT INFLATION REGARDLESS OF WHO'S IN OFFICE, IT 357 IS BETTER TO HAVE INFLATION WITH A JOB TO BUY INFLATED ITEMS WITH THAN NO INFLAT 358 ION AND NO WAY OF BUYING ANYTHING. SURE INFLATION HURTS, BUT STARVATION IS FINAL 359 ###############C.Y.M.################################10/12 10:34 PM############# 360 361 362 364 365 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 366 367 Reading tonight's conversations was enjoyable./ 368 As for politics, during its long an necessary history it has always been an unexact science. 369 There are just too many variables to attempt to control to everyone's satisfaction. 370 It is, i feel, too much to expect o any person, not so different fromyou or me, to be the 'magician' 371 we expect our presidents to be. 372 373 ]hat they adequately manage the beast called public beuracracy is as much as we can reasonably expect. I think Reagan lives up 374 to these citeria, as i felt Carter attempted to. Perhaps it can be summed up in the quote- 375 "Democracy operates on the assumtion that more than half of th people are right more tan half the time." 376 377 leanord: Your assessment of the impact effects of nails and spacecrft at high relative speeds is quite accurrate. Your 378 concerns regarding public informatin is honorable but misguided. Ignorane and lack of understanding and comprehension are 379 far more serious dangers. 380 The conceptual formulation of space confrontation is already a well-establish 381 practice. You must understand its implications if you are to accurately assess its 382 potentials. As the enviornment of space becomes more ad more a part of our natural habitat, we will be confronted with many 383 new contributions to both stability and instabilty. Consider the implication of the electromagnetic mass-launcher. 384 As part ao a forseeable future's lunar colony, a mass launchers intended function is to accelerate large quantities of raw 385 lunar crustal material to lunar escape velocity on a trajectory 386 which would delivery it to a space-based ore refining facility. Opporating under the well established laws of Newtonian 387 physics, these 'projectiles can be aimed with unerroriing accuraccies. 388 (unerroring?!) Consider the potenial of such a mass launcher...to deliver multi-ton projectiles , at speeds in excess of 389 7 miles per second, along random trajectories, to any point of the surface of the earth and with energies in excess of the 390 soviet 100-megaton'er. To argue that we should not become informed with regards to its 'evil' pottential, is to remove the 391 potential for corresponding checks and balances necessary to its morally correct operation... and the should, could, and i 392 feel, must be built... For peace. 393 394 How else can we make informed, reasoned decisions about issues which effect our survival? 395 }ood night. 396 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ COSMO ^^^^^^^^^^ 397 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] 398 LEONARD, CYM IS RIGHT, IT WASN'T HE WHO MENTIONED THE TREES, IT WAS ME, AND I STAND BY WHAT I SAID. AS FAR AS THE 399 COMPARISON OF THE TOTAL TONNAGE TO THE ABSOLUTE CONCENTRATION, YOU'RE RIGHT. BUT THE CONCENTRATION IS WHAT IS 400 IMPORTANT IN THE ISSUE, AND COAL-FIRED POWER PLANTS PRODUCE CONCENTRATIONS THAT ARE REDICULOUSLY HIGH. AND WE MUST 401 DECIDE WHAT WE MEAN BY "POLLUTION". IF YOU MEAN COMPOUNDS OF HYDROCARBONS, THEN YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN. BUT THE FORMS OF 402 HYDROCARBONS PRODUCED BY TREES CAN BE REUSED BY OTHER PLANTS, AND ARE GREAT FERTILIZERS WHEN PRECIPITATED BY RAIN. 403 THE SAME CAN'T BE SAID OF SULFER DIOXIDE, HIGH CONCENTRATIONS OF OZONE, BENZENE, OR CARBON MONOXIDE, NONE OF WHICH 404 TREES PRODUCE IN GREAT QUANTITIES OR AT ALL. LARRY SPEAKES, THE CHAIRMAN OF THE DEPARTMENT OF WHAT THE PRESIDENT MEANT 405 TO SAY, REFERRED TO THE COMMENT AS "JUST A SILLY MISTAKE, HE WAS MIS-INFORMED", AND HE DEFINATELY WAS. THE ATMOSPHERE 406 CAN DEAL WITH LOCAL AND SMALL AMOUNTS OF THESE POLLUTIONS, BUT HAS A HARD TIME WITH MASSIVE CONCENTRATIONS. 407 ON THE QUESTION OF WHETHER REAGAN GOT WHAT HE WANTED, I THINK THAT IF YOU REVIEW THE CONGRESSIONAL RECORD FOR THE 408 PERIOD COVERING THE 1st YEAR AND A HALF OF HIS TERM, YOU WILL FIND THAT HE DID NOT LOSE THE FINAL VOTE ON ANY ISSUE HE 409 HAD SPONSORED. AND ALL OF HIS POLITICAL APPOINTEES WERE CONFIRMED BY CONGRESS, EVEN THE INCOMPETANTS AND GOOF-BALLS. 410 THIS IS AN INCREDIBLE RECORD OF CONGRESSIONAL COMPLIANCE, ONE THAT HASN'T BEEN SEEN IN A LONG TIME, AND NEVER IN MY 411 MEMORY DURING AN ADMINISTRATION WITH A CONGRESS CONTROLED BY HIS "OPPOSITION". SO WHILE I MIGHT AGREE THAT IT IS TOO 412 SOON TO PASS JUDGEMENT ON HIS REIGN, I DON'T AGREE THAT HE HASN'T GOTTEN JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING HE WANTED. FOR A LONG 413 TIME, PEOPLE BELIEVED THAT HE HAD A "MANDATE" TO INITIATE MASSIVE CHANGE, BUT THE ONLY MANDATE HE HAD WAS TO REPLACE 414 THE CARTER ADMINISTRATION. 415 [][][][][][][][][][][][]PAM-[][][][][][] 416 You seem to have a much higher opinion of politicians than I do. Their 417 value is meager at best, their harm great. 418 The reason the economy did better when the pres and congress were at ods 419 is very simple:they didn't do anything then. In any case, comparing the 420 economy against US politics involves leaving out over half of the problem: 421 the rest of the world. Depressions hve usually hit the outside world harder 422 and earlier than the US (our strong, varied economy protects us), and then 423 the US is dragged in. We usually recover faster. I suspect the only thing 424 a politician can do to affect the economy is support or damage trust. 425 The oeconomy runs on private investment and no investor is willing to put 426 money on the line when the "government" (politicians) are playing games 427 that might shoot him down, like raise the taxes abruptly. Stability is 428 worth it's weight in gold, and then some, even if it is expensive we can 429 live with it. I doubt that even 4 years is enough to have real effect, 430 other than shock value. 431 /////////////////////////////////BAD\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ 432 433 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~ 434 435 BAD: WHY MUST YOU ALWAYS LEAVE THE @#%?! MARGIN AT 7????? 436 437 Leonard: I doubt that anyone with an inclination to wipe out a sattelite 438 is incapable of figuring out for himself how to accomplish this ob- 439 jective. Do you really think Cosmo has condemned the world to inevitable 440 oblivion? 441 442 Cosmo: I question whether such a device would be capable of propelling 443 to escape velocity a mass sufficient enough to survive entry into and de- 444 scent through the earth's atmosphere without vaporizing. Is my skepti- 445 cism unwarranted or have I misunderstood your statement? 446 447 CYM & PAM: Touche'! 448 449 Dirty Ol' Man 450 451 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~ 452 453 *********************************************** 454 DOM~ : RIGHT, 300 BAUD ONLY... 455 C.Y.M : YES, THE DELETE KEY IS SUPPORTED. SEE THE RUBOUT DESCRIPTION IN 456 THE HELP LISTING. IT WAS MENT FOR USE WITH PRINTING TERMINALS RATHER THEN 457 VIDEO TERMINALS, BUT IT DOES WORK. 458 PAM! : WELCOME BACK! I THOUGHT MAYBE WE LOST YOU IT'S BEEN AWHILE SINCE 459 YOU'VE MADE ANY COMMENT. 460 BAD : I AGREE WITH YOUR VIEW ON ECONOMIC STABILITY. 461 ANON : YES, DOWN LOAD CAN BE DONE, BUT IT IS RATHER TOUCHY. BE SURE YOU HAVE 462 THE MARGIN SET TO A LENGTH LONGER THEN THE LINES YOU ARE SENDING. ALSO, 463 BWMS NEEDS ABOUT A SECOND AFTER EACH LINE YOU SEND TO PROCESS IT. BEFORE 464 IT WILL ACCEPT MORE DATA. (IF YOU SEND ANY IT WILL BE IGNORED.) THIS TIME 465 IS VARIABLE FROM 0 TO ONE SECOND, BUT IF YOU GIVE IT A SECOND ALL WILL BE 466 FINE. FINALLY, IF YOU HAVE A POOR GRADE PHONE LINE, YOU MAY HAVE TO SLOW 467 DOWN THE TRANSMISSION (USUALLY DONE BY WAITING FOR THE CHARACTER YOU SENT 468 TO BE RETURNED TO YOU.) SO THAT THE RETURNING CHARACTERS BEING SENT BY 469 BWMS DON'T COLIDE WITH THE ONES YOU ARE SENDING AND DISRUPTING THE WHOLE 470 MESS. NOTE: FOR HIGH SPEED TRANSMISSION YOU CAN JUST WAIT FOR THE CHARACTERS 471 YOU SEND TO BE RETURNED TO YOU AND BWMS WILL TAKE CARE OF THE TIMEING FOR 472 YOU. BUT REMEMBER THAT BWMS WILL SEND A CARRAGE RETURN, LINE FEED, CARRAGE 473 RETURN BACK TO YOU FOR EACH SINGLE CARRAGE RETURN YOU SEND. 474 ********* CISTOP MIKEY **** 9:00AM ********** 13 OCT 83 ******************* 475 DOM: The nails don't have to reach escape velocity or even orbital 476 velocity. The idea is that you launch at the right time & fling this 477 mess up in front of your target. The timing is very important 478 (and probably capable of being handled by a good calculator) 479 as this stuff ISN'T going to be at "peak" altitude very long. 480 I know that the info is readily available, but most of those 481 nut cases may not be aware that this is even POSSIBLE, thus 482 they wouldn't look for it. I just wish that CYM had merely stated 483 that a low orbit satellite could be knocked down cheaply, rather 484 than going into details. (I know, just count this as a "pious wish" 485 on my part). This sort of thing bothers me a little, I know that 486 it wouldn't do any good to supress the information. I just don't 487 like having attention called to it. I thought the attempts to control 488 access to Chemistry texts in libraries (in the late 60s) were silly 489 and useless, but I don't think too much of the "Anarchist's Cookbook" 490 either. (speaking of which, DON'T use ANYTHING in ANY edition 491 without trying to get it checked by a trustworthy chemist! There 492 are omissions that can get you killed, or worse yet, half-kill you!!) 493 494 Anyway, just use some simple physics to figure out what 495 it would take to get a single stage rocket to a peak altitude of 496 say 200 miles. If you need any of the simpler rocketry equations, 497 I can probably supply them for you. 498 ____________________________Leonard__________________________ 499 ######################################## 500 LEONARD: YOU DID IT AGAIN, YOU ARE ATTRIBUTING OTHERS WRITINGS TO ME. IT WAS 501 NOT I THAT WAS IN THE DEMOLITION DERBY DISCUS&ION BUT "COSMO": I WOULDN'T BE 502 SO BRAVE AS TO VENTURE AN OPPINION IN THAT FIELD. SCIENCE IS NOT MY CUP OF 503 TEA. RELIGION AND POLITICS ARE MY BAGG. I HAVE TO ADMIT THAT THIS KEYBOARD I 504 IN FRONT OF ME IS INTIMIDATING. I HAVE READ MICKEYS INSTRUCTIONS (HELP FUNCT 505 ) MANY TIMES AND STILL CAN'T FIGURE OUT FOHOW TO EDIT MY MESSAGES, THEREFOR 506 THE ERRORS IN MY SPELLING, IT'S REALLY FRUSTRATION @PERSONIFIED TO GO BACK 507 AND SEE ALL THE TYPOS, ESPECIALLY FOR ONE WITH A MASTERS IN ENGLISH LIT & 508 POLITICAL SCIENCE. 509 510 ###################C.Y.M##################################10/13 10:05AM##### 511 CYM: as an example of editing, in your line 506 you have a typo "@PERSONIFIED" that can be changed by the command 512 CH / @PERSONIFIED/ PERSONIFIED 513 when you are at that line (type LN 506 for that line first). It will magically change! 514 Or, you could replace the whole line by typing REPLACE when at that line. BWMS will type the line back to you and 515 ask if you want to change it. Just type "Y", and it will ask for the new line. 516 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] DJJ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] 517 518 AS I SAID, TRUTH IS FOUND IN THE STRANGEST PLACES, EVEN IN POLITICAL DIALOGUE. 519 I STILL FEEL THAT THE ONLY REASON FOR NOT BEING ABLE TO MAKE IT IS LAZINESS. IF A PERSON IS MENTALLY 520 INCAPACITATED THEN THAT, IN MY OPINION, QUALIFIES AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE RULE. ONE SHOULD NOT, 521 HOWEVER, ASSUME A CERTAIN LEVEL OF ACCOUNTABILITY FOR ANOTHER PERSON. THERE HAVE BEEN MANY CASES OF 522 'INCAPACITATED' PEOPLE ASTONISHING DOCTORS AND RESEARCHERS WITH THEIR LEARNING ABILITY. THE MAIN REASON 523 CITED FOR THESE 'MIRACLES' WAS THE EXPECTATIONS PLACED ON THE SUBJECTS BY THE RESEARCHERS. A POSITIVE 524 ATTITUDE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING. 525 A TRITE SAYING PERHAPS, BUT QUITE TRUE 'WHETHER YOU THINK THAT YOU CAN OR YOU CANNOT, YOU ARE RIGHT.' 526 527 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] DJJ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] 528 Yes, and for every case of someone overcoming huge handicaps and achieving greatness, there are thousands that don't. 529 A positive attitude is very important, but it usually is better to be lucky than good. I don't care what you do or 530 how good you are, if you don't get the breaks, or if you've made it onto someones "bad" list, success will never come. 531 And opportunity is also important. If the opportunities aren't there, you will fail. The attitude DJJ expresses is 532 more like something Walt Disney would say, and it is trite. When you wish upon a star........ 533 ===================================================================================================================== 534 535 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 536 537 Hmmm... 538 ?? << IT IS BETTER TO HAVE INFLATION WITH A EMPLOYMENT THAN NO INFLATION 539 THOUT >> ??? 540 541 self-serving view. 542 ondem an entire nation to the ravages of inflation in order that 543 544 marginaly sucessfull segments of society may maintain their 545 extended life styles ...... 546 547 Sheer rubbish! 548 flation is the most democratic of all theives it steals from both 549 & poor alike and hs no ethnic preference 550 SHOULD BE ACKNOWL 551 552 553 554 GENTALMEN,I FEEL IT NESSISARY TO WARN YOU ALL THAT I HAVE BEEN READING THIS THING FOR 557 A GOOD AMT. OF TIME,THIS BEING THE FIRST MESSAGE I HAVE LEFT YOU PROBABLY HAVE NOT SEEN 558 MY NAME BEFORE. AS NORMAL I SHALL ENJOY WHATEVER IS THE CURRENT DISCUSION AND LEAVE 559 WHATEVER TIDBITS I CAN. 560 561 HELLO TO THE MAN FROM THE LAND OF EAST. 562 DIGITALY, 563 NICHOLAS J.HAFLINGER 564 565 CONSERVATIVES WANT THINGS AS THEY WERE 566 IT JUST CAN'T BE. WE ARE ALREADY IN THE FUTURE. LIBERALS LOOK TOWARD CHANGE 567 AND BECAUSE THEY DO THEY ARE INHERENTLY THE 568 MORE SUCCESSFUL ANIMAL. CONSERVATISM=NO GROWTH. LIBERALISM=CHANGE=THE FUTURE=GR 569 GROWTH. 570 LETS LEAVE THE RAJNISHERS ALONE IN THE DESERT TO MAKE IT BLOOM. 571 WHY DO WE OREGONIANS FEEL A NEED TO BE 572 SO PARANIOD, LEAVE THAT TO THE WIERD 573 ONES IN L.A.,D.C.,N.Y. ETC. 574 ^^^ RUSTY ^^^ 575 576 to:rusty 577 fm:The Mad Oregonian 578 sj:Rajneeshies 579 580 As a lifetime Oregonian, I feel that those perverts should go 581 weirdos are. They are violating the 1st ammendment and should 582 be sent to the moon!! 583 584 Why don't you just go and live with them for a while and then 585 we shall see what you say about them. 586 -------------M.O.------------- 587 To:Sheila Silverman (alias Ma Sheila) 588 sj: Your ear 589 590 Stick it in your ear baby!! 591 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 592 Somehow, i don't belive that the opn discussion of celestial destruction derby's can be any more damaging to our nation/ 593 594 society than the open discussion of politcal discontent ( bordering on the just-plain/nasty) and sayingthings that Khomani 595 types might take personal affront to(remember the crusades?). 596 597 It strikes me that amongst a random sampling of our nations population (this bulletin board) we seem to disagree about 598 most anything/everything. Extrapolate to the meeting halls ofthe governing 'instruments' 599 and you can see why politics & religion/ what-have-you, muddles 600 along as they do. Put in their poistion would we perform any better? 601 602 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^COSMO ^^^^^^^^^^ 603 604 No, but wouldn't it be fun to be paid 605 That much to argue? 606 [][][]][][][]][][][][][][] 607 LUCK IS A FIGMENT OF THOSE FOLKS WHO LIKE TO PLACE BLAME EVERYWHERE BUT ON THEMSELVES. ASK ANY SUCCESSFUL BUSINESS PERSON, 608 AND YOU WILL FIND THAT LUCK IS TERRIFIC, AS LONG AS YOU CONSIDER HARD WROK AND EFFORT THE EQUVALENT OF LUCK. 609 610 Yes, I would love to get paid for arguing. 611 612 LIBERALISM IS MAKING SURE THAT EVERYONE SHARES EQUALLY IN THE SHORT END OF THE STICK. 613 CONSERVATISM IS THE BUSINESS OF MAKING LARGER STICKS. 614 615 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][] DJJ [][][]][][][][][][][][][][][][] 616 617 AND THEN KEEPING THE STICKS FOR THEMSELVES, OR HITTING EVERYONE OVER THE HEAD WITH THEM.